Comments on: John Ford’s Wilderness: The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance http://parallax-view.org/2009/05/21/john-fords-wilderness-the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance/ Smart Words About Cinema Sun, 20 May 2012 20:40:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962) | Old Old Films http://parallax-view.org/2009/05/21/john-fords-wilderness-the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance/comment-page-1/#comment-7292 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962) | Old Old Films Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:32:23 +0000 http://parallax-view.org/?p=2295#comment-7292 [...] The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance parallax-view.org [...] [...] The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance parallax-view.org [...]

]]> By: Frank http://parallax-view.org/2009/05/21/john-fords-wilderness-the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance/comment-page-1/#comment-6167 Frank Tue, 01 Feb 2011 00:05:28 +0000 http://parallax-view.org/?p=2295#comment-6167 Regarding whether Ranse is patronising to Pompey or not: I wholeheartedly agree with Dan Green and I can also see your point. I think Ford understood time and place very well. He was careful not to let too many contemporary attitudes (or even costumes at times) into his films. Ford himself is clearly progressive but he is also conscious that a progressive character in the era of the film would not necessarily act like a contemporary progressive person. Unfortunately that is why characters like Judge Priest and Tom Doniphon are occasionally misunderstood. ie: we judge them by contemporary standards. It possibly also explains why actors like Woody Strode and Stepin Fetchit are criticised for their roles in Ford films. Ford also of course is ambivalent but he does have a point of view– he criticizes the past by “printing the truth” on film but he is ambivalent about the future. I have always thought Ford was saying progress is necessary but let’s not do away with all the past as there was good in there also. Lastly, for all the usual criticism (not mine) of Ford’s films being loud and abrasive especially during comedy sequences (which I love) Ford is the most subtle of film makers ….. as microcosms of society with classes, prejudices, cultures and all aspects of humans living together you could hardly do better than “The Man who Shot Liberty Valance”, “Donovan’s Reef”, “The Sun Shines Bright”, “The Quite Man”, “How Green was My Valley” or any number of others. Regarding whether Ranse is patronising to Pompey or not: I wholeheartedly agree with Dan Green and I can also see your point. I think Ford understood time and place very well. He was careful not to let too many contemporary attitudes (or even costumes at times) into his films. Ford himself is clearly progressive but he is also conscious that a progressive character in the era of the film would not necessarily act like a contemporary progressive person.

Unfortunately that is why characters like Judge Priest and Tom Doniphon are occasionally misunderstood. ie: we judge them by contemporary standards. It possibly also explains why actors like Woody Strode and Stepin Fetchit are criticised for their roles in Ford films.

Ford also of course is ambivalent but he does have a point of view– he criticizes the past by “printing the truth” on film but he is ambivalent about the future. I have always thought Ford was saying progress is necessary but let’s not do away with all the past as there was good in there also.

Lastly, for all the usual criticism (not mine) of Ford’s films being loud and abrasive especially during comedy sequences (which I love) Ford is the most subtle of film makers ….. as microcosms of society with classes, prejudices, cultures and all aspects of humans living together you could hardly do better than “The Man who Shot Liberty Valance”, “Donovan’s Reef”, “The Sun Shines Bright”, “The Quite Man”, “How Green was My Valley” or any number of others.

]]> By: Dan Green http://parallax-view.org/2009/05/21/john-fords-wilderness-the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance/comment-page-1/#comment-4110 Dan Green Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:04:10 +0000 http://parallax-view.org/?p=2295#comment-4110 I think you're completely wrong about the classroom scene and what you've characterize as Rance's "self-satisfied reply" about "a lot of people forget that part." I believe that Rance's comment is a reflection of Ford's hatred for racism in any form. The irony is in having an African-American admitting he forgot that part. Rance is only softening the blow, as any teacher would, by stating that a lot of people forget that part. But the deeper meaning is that Ford, for all his faults, was very progressive in his attitude regarding how Native-Americans, Mexicans and African-Americans were depicted. In Ft Apache, John Wayne's character risks court marshal and being branded a coward in defense of his moral contract with Cochise. Cochise makes a spirited speech defending his actions about how his people were degraded by the white man a continuing theme that is replayed in the earlier scenes involving the horrible acts done by the settlers store proprietor Meacham. The deference and respect shown to Cochise by Wayne and his sidekick Sgt. Beaufort is remarkable considering how "Indians" were usually depicted. Very few westerns or other directors acknowledged that Native Americans were mistreated by whites or that whites acted less than honorably regarding their encounters with Native Americans. Henry Fonda's character portrays the prevailing view of Indians as mindless, drunk, unprincipled savages. Ford, as a first generation Irish-American, must have felt the sting of racism that his parents must have encountered when they arrived in America and it was something that can be found in many of his films whether it concerned Welshmen [How Green was My Valley] or Filipinos [They Were Expendable]. You never saw African-Americans in early films. Ford was a pioneer in that sense as well. You make is sound as he only perpetuated a blackface stereotype. He gave them a speaking voice and showed their nobility whenever he could. I think you’re completely wrong about the classroom scene and what you’ve characterize as Rance’s “self-satisfied reply” about “a lot of people forget that part.” I believe that Rance’s comment is a reflection of Ford’s hatred for racism in any form. The irony is in having an African-American admitting he forgot that part. Rance is only softening the blow, as any teacher would, by stating that a lot of people forget that part. But the deeper meaning is that Ford, for all his faults, was very progressive in his attitude regarding how Native-Americans, Mexicans and African-Americans were depicted. In Ft Apache, John Wayne’s character risks court marshal and being branded a coward in defense of his moral contract with Cochise. Cochise makes a spirited speech defending his actions about how his people were degraded by the white man a continuing theme that is replayed in the earlier scenes involving the horrible acts done by the settlers store proprietor Meacham. The deference and respect shown to Cochise by Wayne and his sidekick Sgt. Beaufort is remarkable considering how “Indians” were usually depicted. Very few westerns or other directors acknowledged that Native Americans were mistreated by whites or that whites acted less than honorably regarding their encounters with Native Americans. Henry Fonda’s character portrays the prevailing view of Indians as mindless, drunk, unprincipled savages. Ford, as a first generation Irish-American, must have felt the sting of racism that his parents must have encountered when they arrived in America and it was something that can be found in many of his films whether it concerned Welshmen [How Green was My Valley] or Filipinos [They Were Expendable]. You never saw African-Americans in early films. Ford was a pioneer in that sense as well. You make is sound as he only perpetuated a blackface stereotype. He gave them a speaking voice and showed their nobility whenever he could.

]]> By: admin http://parallax-view.org/2009/05/21/john-fords-wilderness-the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance/comment-page-1/#comment-1822 admin Fri, 22 May 2009 21:51:37 +0000 http://parallax-view.org/?p=2295#comment-1822 It is indeed Vera Miles and has been corrected. Thanks for the correction. It is indeed Vera Miles and has been corrected. Thanks for the correction.

]]> By: nitramnaed http://parallax-view.org/2009/05/21/john-fords-wilderness-the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance/comment-page-1/#comment-1820 nitramnaed Fri, 22 May 2009 19:50:21 +0000 http://parallax-view.org/?p=2295#comment-1820 Tom (John Wayne) and Hallie (Vera Ellen) in the kitchen.......That would be "Vera Miles" not Vera-Ellen. Tom (John Wayne) and Hallie (Vera Ellen) in the kitchen…….That would be “Vera Miles” not Vera-Ellen.

]]> By: Kalai Strode http://parallax-view.org/2009/05/21/john-fords-wilderness-the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance/comment-page-1/#comment-1819 Kalai Strode Fri, 22 May 2009 07:01:09 +0000 http://parallax-view.org/?p=2295#comment-1819 It is true that Woody Strode’s visage at the beginning of the movie is rather cotton-haired. This was done, not out of any idea of an Uncle Remus characterization, but in order to make Woody look older. In 1962 he was already 48 years old, and with a bald head it was difficult to find ways to age him. My second point is that the image of Pompey "standing guard" and reverently solo by Tom's casket was a flash-forward to the day when Woody held John Ford's hand as he passed away. Only Woody and John Ford's sister were present. They toasted John Ford and threw their glasses into the fireplace. Woody sat in the church by John Ford's casket, solo, just as in Liberty Valance. Tom was, in essence, John Ford - a relic of a past long gone, remembered faithfully by only a few. In an earlier John Ford movie, Stepin Fetchit faithfully stands guard on the porch as Judge Priest walks into the darkened room of death. These were not meant to be subservient images, but a homage to faithfulness and friendship. It is true that Woody Strode’s visage at the beginning of the movie is rather cotton-haired. This was done, not out of any idea of an Uncle Remus characterization, but in order to make Woody look older. In 1962 he was already 48 years old, and with a bald head it was difficult to find ways to age him. My second point is that the image of Pompey “standing guard” and reverently solo by Tom’s casket was a flash-forward to the day when Woody held John Ford’s hand as he passed away. Only Woody and John Ford’s sister were present. They toasted John Ford and threw their glasses into the fireplace. Woody sat in the church by John Ford’s casket, solo, just as in Liberty Valance. Tom was, in essence, John Ford – a relic of a past long gone, remembered faithfully by only a few. In an earlier John Ford movie, Stepin Fetchit faithfully stands guard on the porch as Judge Priest walks into the darkened room of death. These were not meant to be subservient images, but a homage to faithfulness and friendship.

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